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  1. didn’t know if you might find this humerous


    Christian: If Calvin’s god tossed a baby into the fire of Moloch, would he be responsible for doing so?

    Calvinist: No – gravity along with the baby’s total depravity are responsible.

    Christian: How do you reason that out rationally?

    Calvinist: He uses secondary means to bring about events. In this case, gravity and the baby’s total depravity. Therefore, God is not involved in the process that leads to the baby’s death. God’s involvement- is that he knows by his omniscience it’s going to happen, and he doesn’t prevent or restrain it from happening.

    Christian: Wait – doesn’t Calvin’s god ordain/determine/decree/render every secondary means in every part?

    Calvinist: Yes, but not in such a way that he is responsible. Like I said – his role in the event is that he has omniscience. And with his omniscience he knows what’s going to happen to the baby. He chooses to permit it, and not prevent it or restrain it, and that’s all. In such case he is simply allowing it to happen and therefore he is not responsible, and did not make or cause it to happen.

    Christian: But isn’t it true that in Calvinism God can’t know any proposition to be true unless he ordains/determines/decrees/renders it to be true? Therefore, the only way his omniscience can know he will throw the baby into the fire of Moloch is if he specifically ordains/determines/decrees himself to throw the baby into the fire of Moloch?

    Calvinist: Yes, but how he comes to know what he has decreed himself to do doesn’t have anything to do with it happening because omniscience doesn’t make it happen.

    Christian: But isn’t it true that his decree is the necessary and sufficient cause of it happening? And by the way, where did you get these answers – they seem like deceptive double-talk – do Calvinist pastors teach these answers as talking-points?

    Calvinist: No, these answers come straight from the bible. They only seem like deceptive double-talk to you because you are not elect and god has not opened your eyes and given you intellectual understanding. I’m a Calvinist and I have total intellectual understanding of all these things, and they all make perfect sense to me.

    Christian: By any chance, does your pastor teach a class titled: “How to talk your way out of anything”?

    Calvinist: I don’t know what you’re talking about! And besides, you’re not a Calvinist so you can’t possibility know the secret things of God. I am a Calvinist – and therefore I know everything there is to know about these things. That makes me always right and you always wrong. So obviously the problem is you!

    Christian: I get the picture now!

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