Apologetics Thrusday – The Case of the Missing Greek Discussion on a Calvinist Blog

Jack Lee likely deleted a thread on his blogpost The Bible Verse That Made Me a Calvinist, because it definitely undermined his entire take on this verse. This would be more evidence of Calvinist intellectual dishonesty if true.

Recovered from Google cache:

http://realityisnotoptional.com Christopher Fisher
There is actually a good case that this is a mistranslation. The verb very well can be reflexive. “As many as appointed themselves to eternal life believed”. It makes better sense in the context of what is being said.

Thank you.

as many as were ordained to eternal life believed

axisoflogos
…which means Acts 22:10 should be translated “you will be told of all that you have appointed yourself to do.”

http://realityisnotoptional.com Christopher Fisher
Here is a Greek lesson for you.

When translating Greek middle/passive forms of transitive verbs you may need to try both middle and passive translations to see which makes best sense in the context.

Does that make sense? Turning to other parts of the Bible wont help much, because immediate context is the determining factor.

In fact, two verses earlier, a middle/passive was translated as a middle. Are you going to argue it should be passive?

Act 13:46 And Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, saying, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken first to you. Since you thrust it aside and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles.

The case for Acts 22:10 being a Calvinistic verse falls apart with basic knowledge of the Greek language. In fact, this verse potentially destroys Calvinism.

http://www.chorusinthechaos.com Jack Lee
Christopher, thank you for reading and commenting. I am aware of this understanding/translation but it does not hold up when comparing the same word in other places in scripture, specifically the same book. Consider Acts 15:2, 22:10, and 28:23. This understanding of the word is consistent with Acts and the rest of scripture.

For quick reference, Acts 22:10 “And I said, ‘What shall I do, Lord?’ And the Lord said to me, ‘Rise, and go into Damascus, and there you will be told all that is appointed for you to do.”

http://realityisnotoptional.com Christopher Fisher
Sir,

That is just not what this is about. If my argument is that a middle/passive determination can only be made based on context, then turning to other parts of the Bible for similar usage is useless and dangerous. That would be like trying to determine the meaning of “bat” in an English story by turning to a completely different part of a story, whereas the context tells you more about if it is a flying bat or a wooden bat. Just that this is about verb voices!

When translating Greek middle/passive forms of transitive verbs you may need to try both middle and passive translations to see which makes best sense in the context. In the context, other middle/passives have been translated passive:

Act 13:46 And Paul and Barnabas spoke out boldly, saying, “It was necessary that the word of God be spoken first to you. Since you thrust it aside and judge yourselves unworthy of eternal life, behold, we are turning to the Gentiles.

Does that make sense?

Adam
The word used in the Greek translation is τεταγμενοι (tetagmenoi) which is from τασσω (tasso) which means I appoint.

http://realityisnotoptional.com Christopher Fisher
Do you understand parsing of a verb? In Greek, after you parse a verb you can see who is the actor of the verb. Does that make sense to you? The verb supports a reflexive translation, meaning the people could be appointing themselves. And because the context uses other reflective verbs, it is also the most likely rendering.

If people appoint themselves, doesn’t Calvinism fail?

http://www.chorusinthechaos.com Jack Lee
Christopher, I think you are fighting against what scripture plainly says.

http://realityisnotoptional.com Christopher Fisher
Well actually, I have given an objectively better interpretation of the verse in question. If you would like a really good example of fighting against the scripture, I would like to see your take on this verse spoken by Yahweh:

Jer 18:8 if that nation against whom I have spoken turns from its evil, I will relent of the disaster that I thought to bring upon it.

Does God say He thought He was going to do something but did not do it?

http://www.chorusinthechaos.com Jack Lee
Christopher,

Thanks for the dialog. Every major bible translation (save the message) does agree with our interpretation of Acts 13:48. That includes most bible scholars and much of church history.

Ben
“dialog”
That is a laugh, I mean maybe my opinion here is unwarranted or unneeded but that was not a “dialog” that was dismissive… You simply dismissed the discourse that was presented to you without actually intelligently engaging within it, even if you have no knowledge of the Greek discourse, it would have been good to see you acknowledge such things and at least validate the opinion and translation that was set before you from someone who, most probably from their shown understanding of Greek, has more knowledge than you…

“bible scholars”

Who? Reformed Scholars? Arminian Scholars? This is a very audacious claim to make without any qualification at all of who you are actually talking about. You cant expect people to believe that Arminian Scholars simply roll over at this verse and have no response to such a translation…

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